Batteries - LiTime - Buyer Beware!

June 2024 update

Gritted my teeth and ordered another LiTime battery to be shipped to Curacao via Miami.  Seemed like the best of a series of bad options. 

May 2024

It's when there's a problem that you really learn about the company you are dealing with.  LiTime  could and should do much better than this.  

In a nutshell, you have no warranty, even for a battery shipped DOA, if the defect is discovered in a region in which inexpensive ground transport of lithium batteries to the USA  is not available.     

As discussed in the earlier post, (below) I purchased 2ea LiTime 230AH lithium batteries, and had them shipped to my my freight forwarder in Miami, and thence to Curacao.  
One of these turned out to be defective, which LiTime acknowledged.   Unfortunately LiTime was unwillng to replace it without first receiving the defective unit back, meaning it had to be shipped back to the USA at my expense. Shipping would cost $631USD to airfreight from Curacao. (the only option)   The battery currently sells for $614USD.

Given the cost involved in returning the defective battery, (I sent LiTime a copy of the quote) I asked them to simply ship the replacement to Miami, and I would pay (again) to ship to Curacao.  I did not ask them to do anything more than deliver a functioning battery to the same location in the USA as they had originally.  My ask was that they make an exception to their  ‘return of defective’ requirement, given the cost.   To me, this seems reasonable.     Fully aware of the situation they responded as follows:

This leaves me  the unenviable choice of:

•  taking a chance ordering a second battery from LiTime, potentially getting another defective one and being out of pocket for TWO. (and still stuck for batteries)
• buy and ship one from a better supplier to replace the defective LiTime unit, and use both, mixing battery/BMS systems. 
• scrapping both of the LiTime batteries and replacing with those from a decent, reputable supplier.  

Litime has put adherence to policy ahead of taking ownership of product quality.  Frankly, using policy as an excuse.     Buyer beware!

Nature of the defect -

 liTime explained to me that  batteries cannot be shipped fully charged.  Sometimes the battery’s voltage drops below a safe threshold, triggering the BMS’s protective mode.  The BMS can be reset by applying a brief overvoltage to the battery.  Once reset, it will accept a charge.  I walked through this with liTime via email to confirm the battery (the BMS actually) was in fact defective.  Bizzarely, the supplemental documentation states that “ 85% of the time” this over voltage reset method revives the battery.  This leaves me wondering about their actual failure rate.  

I left a review, lets see how long before they take it down.

I was excited to purchase two of these batteries for an upgrade to my sailboat in Curacao. Unfortunately one turned out to be defective. LiTime was unwillng to replace it without first receiving the defective unit back, shipped to the USA at my expense. This would cost $500 to airfreight from Curacao. as a compromise I asked them to simply credit me for the defective unit, and I would pay (for the second time) to ship the replacement to Curacao. This was not good enough for LiTime, despite having acknowledged the defect. I now have the unenviable choice of taking a chance ordering a second battery from them, (and potentially get stuck with another defective) or replacing one or both of the LiTime batteries with those from a reputable supplier. Buyer beware.https://francesovni435.blogspot.com/2024/05/litime-batteries-buyer-beware.html

Batteries

Sakura currently contains 5 group 31 batteries, including one engine start battery. These are approximately 5 years old and have been in continuous use though that time. This provides approximately 250AH of usable house bank capacity. While this capacity may be adequte, the age of the batteries suggests to me that replacement is in order. This provides the opportunity to convert to LiFePo batteries, and to increase house bank capacity.

Which form factors best fit the 435/6?

The compartment is below the cockpit, accessible from either aft cabin, and measures approximately 27X23", with limited clearance above. There is  room for additional batteries elsewhere should that be necessary.  

Typical house battery sizes by convention:

-Group 31 Batteries:    13 x 6 13/16 x 9 7/16 inches (~13 x 6.8 x 9.44 inches, 330 x 173 x 240 mm), 

- 4D batteries: 20 3/4 x 8 3/4 x 9 7/8 inches (527 x 222 x 250 mm),

- 6D batteries: 20 3/4 x 10 x 10 1/4 inches (527 x 254 x 260),

- 8D batteries: 20 3/4 x 11 1/8 x 9 7/8 inches (527 x 283 x 250 mm).

"We emphasize these 'maximum dimensions' since some of the BCI group 8D batteries are closer to group 6D or group 4D, but they are still labeled as 8D battery group and similar."

The BCI group sizes are very relevant for vehicles, but less so for off-grid applications where mounting brackcts are not a consideration.   Thus, many larger form factor (4D and up, 20" in length)  drop-in lithium batterries are being produced that vary in width and height.  One of the challenges involved is getting these sizes in and out of the 43's battery compartment is the limited clearance above.        

This challenege was addressed by cutting down the side of the box in Maria's  very large installation.    Impressive.    She also provided me battery compartment dimensions at 56x76x23 cm.     (22X30X9")   Thanks Maria!   

After some research, I purchased 2ea of the following as a first step.   These will be fitted in Oct 2023.

Update - October 2023

The 2X230ah LiTime batteries arrived in Curacao, well packed and  per schedule however one was indicating only 2.8v.   The included literature and website offered no explanation other than to call or email ("12 hour response time") for direction.   After a few days and one follow-up email I received a reply indicating that the BMS was in protected mode and that this was common.    (so, why not document it?)  I requested some documentation of the BMS, and what was sent was not terribly useful.    

See update at top -